Retro VGS...Round 2 (AKA Coleco Chameleon)

[triverse]

I apologize for my statement concerning Focusrs "and readers like him". It was unprofessional and I am not afraid to apologize for that momentary lack of judgment shown in my comment. I will keep any further comments on this matter restrained to PM's so that we avoid derailing the discussion here. Again, my apologies.

[Leathco]

Its cool. And I'm no mod or anyone important here, I just didn't want to see personal attacks. We are all friends here, all fans of old school gaming, and I don't want to see the community splintering even more than it already has over the opinions of a gaming system that hasn't even released yet. We are all better than that.

No matter what happens, at the end of the day we are all retro gamers. Modern gaming didn't change that, and the Colecocision Chameleon won't either.

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[SubaruBrat]

Focus is a damn decent dude, and a good guy. I do question his judgement in believing in socal even after he has pulled what he did, it would be so easy to do a few screen caps and allot of matters would be settled. Although he is wrong I can't fault him for his thoughts. Triverse is scary accurate for not being in the room. It sucks that this happened in family but it did and it has to be addressed. It would be dishonest to censor all this and look for a smooth road when life doesn't work that way.

[Leathco]

Scott, my biggest concern in the whole thing is you saying he bought the jag molds using rgr money, then transferred ownership to a separate entity. The rest of the drama can be written up to poor public relations and poor management, but the financial transfer sounds extremely unethical. Has there been any discussion between the two companies regarding this, and is an outcome that pleases both parties still possible?

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[miner2049er]

Scott, my biggest concern in the whole thing is you saying he bought the jag molds using rgr money, then transferred ownership to a separate entity.

Just to be clear, it was not RGR money, none of that was abused, and other than the working relationship and Mike not wanting to do podcasts any more, RGR is unaffected. Scott and I maintain full ownership of all things RGR.

The molds were bought by Gamegavel LLC, of which Scott is a part owner, as are some of Mike's family and assorted people from Gamegavel and Retro Magazine.

They were then transferred to the console company Retro Video Game Systems Inc which was founded just before the failed IndieGoGo campaign.

[miner2049er]

This is part of the reason the whole thing gets a bit ludicrous.

To those behind the console it is a great idea and they believe in it and believe it will happen and be a competing entity in today's market. They just want you to take the risk rather than going the more legitimate and traditional route of "doing an Atari" and having 3 guys start a company with their own money and run a business as a business should be run.

They want the success and the profits but none of the risk but I guess they're not alone in that. I just choose not to support that notion.

There's a great saying that fits perfectly. "Put your money where your mouth is."

It's a good song too.

[GameGavel]

Actually to be completely clear I cashed in some of our personal 401K to get the cash to buy the Jag tooling. Then I personally loaned that money to GameGavel,LLC to purchase the molds. The new console company will soon purchase the tooling from GameGavel,LLC and then GameGavel, LLC will pay me back the loan. Also, while the tooling was owned by GameGavel,LLC it sold a few thousand dollars in the translucent shells which all that money went back into the magazine. So there was no comingling of funds. As far as my decision to start a second company for the console, it was needed as I don't have enough stock to share with others, something that I will beed to do to grow the console business in the future. The idea though is for the console company to pay GameGavel,LLC/RETRO Magazine for subscribers ( all buyers of the console will receive a digital and or print subscription to the magazine ) and also for a dedicated multi-page section devoted to promoting the console, its games and developers. The console company will pay the going rate for that coverage. So both companies will be working together to benefit the other, but at arm's length. It is still very important to me that my "owners" in GG,LLC will see an upside tied to the success of the console.

[TripHamer]

Actually to be completely clear I cashed in some of out personal 401K to get the cash to buy the Jag tooling...

That all sounds reasonable. Doesn't sound like none of this was discussed behind the scenes though, and probably should of been? Anyway, keep talking everyone. It all makes for interesting reading and of course I'm interested in the process of the birth of a console.

Thanks all for the inside baseball.

[SubaruBrat]

RVGS was emblazoned with the RETRO logo, contributed to by multiple GG/RETRO people, and there was no daylight between the two when it served the purpose of the project. That new company was created about a year into the process with many months of the PR efforts and announcements, attempted partnerships, design work, and all of that development work was done before the new company even existed. Just a few weeks before the "kickstarter" launch the new company was created (of course all this was done on the sly) and all of this magically transferred over. That is unethical at the very least and very likely illegal, and the time to determine that will come. Personally I think this latest attempt will bomb bigger than the first one.

[TripHamer]

RVGS was emblazoned with the RETRO logo, contributed to by multiple GG/RETRO people, and there was no daylight between the two when it served the purpose of the project. That new company was created about a year into the process with many months of the PR efforts and announcements, attempted partnerships, design work, and all of that development work was done before the new company even existed. Just a few weeks before the "kickstarter" launch the new company was created (of course all this was done on the sly) and all of this magically transferred over. That is unethical at the very least and very likely illegal, and the time to determine that will come. Personally I think this latest attempt will bomb bigger than the first one.

Let me see if I understand what you just said. You got Game Gavel and Retro Magazine (two separate companies?) In a joint effort, created and promoted the RVGS console. And all those assets, IP, etc belongs to, I assume, Game Gavel. And you own a part of Game Gavel. At some point before the Kickstarter, Mike created a Third company and magically transferred all the assets, IP, etc over to that new company? And he has sole authority to make those type of decisions? I guess if you wanted to just transfer assets, you could "sell" them for say $1 to the new company, if you wanted to. Then be up front about it and give stock to people who have a steak in it. But be transparent about it so that people involved aren't going WTF Mike? I guess the new company would at least insulate the other two if it doesn't do well? But I really don't know how that all works, I'm just thinking what sounds reasonable with the information presented.

With Mike saying what he just said here publicly, you would at least think that, by now, all the people involved would know exactly what's going on and all misunderstanding would of been cleared up by now? I'm guess there's more to it then what is being said here?