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Thread: RoundUp 045 - Yoinking On The Up

  1. #1
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    Default RoundUp 045 - Yoinking On The Up

    Apparently we are seeing a rise in the number of incidents of yoinking.

    I myself have been a victim and it's no fun, let me tell you.

    If you too have been yoinked, cheer yourself up by listening to the February Podcast.

    TOPICS COVERED IN THE SHOW
    Hardware Flashback: Odyssey 2 - (00:00)
    Mike'd Up - (30:14)
    Guinness Gaming Records - (48:26)
    Martin Dodd - Life On Mars - (51:28)
    Smithsonian Art Of Video Games Interview - (55:32)
    The Great And Powerful Oz - (83:53)
    Top Ten Arcade Cab Marquees - (84:23)
    Gaming Trivia - (171:58)
    It Came From MAME - (172:25)
    Live News And Listener Views - (187:54)
    Retro Regurge - (308:05)
    Brad Smith - Brain Damage - (324:29)
    URLs And EMails - (329:06)

    See the shownotes page. Donate to the show.

    Join our Facebook Group. Podcatch via the show’s RSS Feed.

    Read the Live News chat log.

    Stream the show 24/7.

    Listen to the Outtakes.
    Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.
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    I thought yoinking was a good thing. I yoink myself 3 times a day.

    Sent from my LG-VM670 using Tapatalk

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    Oh no, yoinking is bad.

    Bad, bad, bad, bad.
    Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.
    Jamesonline.net
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    Yoinking is known to cause blindness! Consult a physician if yoinking results in blurry vision, talking incoherently and an erection that lasts more then 12 years.

  5. #5
    MrFrumble Guest

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    I like your top of the show music selection this week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miner2049er View Post
    Apparently we are seeing a rise in the number of incidents of yoinking. I myself have been a victim and it's no fun, let me tell you.
    Yeah, but have you ever been on the receiving end of a good sponking?

    Last edited by Chewchilla; 28-02-12 at 05:45.
    When you think you are a tough avenger, switch the difficulty to A, and then try Ultimate Yars!

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    "I challenge you rosbifs!" LOL.
    Before you insult a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you insult him, you'll be a mile away, and have his shoes.
    Jamesonline.net
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    Brumisator Guest

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    Yup, that's the good old slang term for brits in french "rosbif", as in, roast beef.

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    Doug0909 response to Scotts HWFB:

    Dear RGR:

    Thank you for covering the Odyssey 2 in your Hardware Flashback. You
    gave some much needed attention to an underappreciated system and I
    liked your research and the generally positive view of the system.
    However, you did kind of ^(&!* parts of it up.

    First, what is the source of what you said about Magnavox selling less
    units because they tried telling people the system only worked on
    Magnavox Televisions??! I've heard that many times about the ORIGINAL
    Odyssey game system, and in fact that's in the Wikipedia article
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnavox_Odyssey%C2%B2. However, I have
    never heard they repeated that mistake with the Odyssey 2... and that
    would have been crazy with the competition they had at the time... So
    let me know if you have a source for that...

    About the Odyssey 2's hardware, you say that the Odyssey 2 was more a
    peer of the Fairchild Channel F than the Atari 2600 as it was less
    powerful than the 2600. I always understood that, in fact, the opposite
    was true; on paper, the Odyssey 2 was more powerful than the 2600. The
    core of your argument has to do with the CPU's of the respective
    machines - and I don't know enough about that to comment intelligently,
    but I would note that the 8048 ran at around 1.8 MHz while the 6507 only
    ran at 1.2 MHz. Perhaps that doesn't make much difference; the Channel
    F's processor also ran at around 1.8 MHz. I don't know; just pointing
    that out... The place I really think you made an error, though, had to
    do with the RAM comparison. You say that the O2, like the Fairchild,
    only had 64 bytes of RAM, while the 2600 had 128 bytes of RAM - which
    is, technically, correct. What you left out was that, in addition to
    the system RAM, the O2 ALSO HAD 256 BYTES OF VIDEO RAM. That probably
    appeared to be a critical stat in the O2's favor at the time. Yes, as
    you say, the O2 had only 16 colors and the 2600 had 128 colors (well,
    really a palette of 128 shades of 16 colors). But that doesn't matter
    much when you are mainly dealing with single color sprites and no
    background graphics... In fact, I think early O2 games looked better
    than early 2600 games; there was no flicker, no crud lines on the side
    of the screen, and the graphics always just looked sharper to me.
    Compare Quest for the Rings to Adventure, or Pick Axe Pete to 2600
    Donkey Kong, or Freedom Fighters to 2600 Defender, or of course KC
    Munchkin to Pac Man. Now, of course, there is no doubt the 2600 was
    capable of doing things you simply couldn't do on the O2 - and
    Activision and Imagic started pulling off those things around 1982 with
    games like Demon Attack (superior to the O2 version) and Pitfall... and
    then by the mid-80's drove the nail in any comparison between what the
    systems could do with titles like Pitfall II and Solaris. That was,
    however, because the programmers learned how to trick out the TIA.
    Still, before they discovered they could trick out the TIA and really
    started working on that, it was not at all clear the 2600 was a more
    powerful machine. (Even in the one area where the 2600 was clearly
    superior on paper out the door - the two-channel sound - that was
    actually the result of the abandoned idea of stereo output channels, and
    I don't think anyone envisioned them tricking out the two channels for
    complex music with a custom chip built into the Pitfall II cartridge...)

    So I don't think it's fair to say that in the late 70's (when the
    fairchild was still around) and early 80's (when the fairchild was
    already as good as dead), the odyssey 2 was more of a competitor to the
    fairchild than the Atari. Just look at the games; did you ever see
    anything like pac-man or donkey kong on the fairchild?

    By the way, what did you mean that the odyssey 2 had only 1k rom
    (referring, I guess, to its BIOS) available but the 2600 had 4k rom?
    The 2600 had no BIOS... If you were talking about cartridges, the O2
    took up to 8kb cartridges (and that was standard on the 2600 too, which
    in fact required bank switching for the 8kb cartridges). The 16kb ROM
    2600 games like Solaris only came out in the 2600's last days, after the
    O2 was mostly off the market...

    And then there's the most important point - even though the 2600 could
    do a lot of things the O2 couldn't do, it seems the O2 could do a lot of
    things the 2600 couldn't do in the early days, and a few things it
    possibly could never do. Simply - the O2 could have lots of fast-moving
    sprites with zero flicker. Perhaps this was because of the built-in
    character set, as sometimes the moving objects (the dots in KC Munchkin,
    the ships in Timelord) were taken directly from the built in character
    set. Take KC Munchkin - there's KC, 3 ghosts, 12 dots (four of which
    are flashing), and a spinning ghost pen - and everything moves
    independently, smoothly, with no-flicker, and incredibly fast on the
    higher levels. Years ago, I suggested porting KC Munckin to the 2600 on
    AtariAge, and several people indicated that they did not know if that
    was possible with the number of independently moving sprites. So I
    wonder if you could port the lightning fast action (and many falling
    objects) in Attack of the Timelord, or if you could have all those
    boulders flying around in Pick Axe Pete.. at least with zero flicker as
    on the O2. So, yeah, the O2 could never pull off background graphics,
    and multi-colored sprites were few and far between. But if you are
    enjoying old games in 2012... who cares? We have all the background
    graphics and multi-colored sprites we could ever want. But give me an
    old game with lightning fast flicker-free action and sharp graphics over
    some flickery 2600 title or slow "high-res" Intellivision title any day...

    So, yeah, I don't think the hardware was more Channel F'ish than
    2600'ish, and neither, I think, did many people from 1978-1982. But the
    discussion of the software is where I think you REALLY missed the mark.

    The Keyboard was a cool feature, but it wasn't used much, especially by
    people who didn't buy the educational games for little kids or the
    computer intro cart. For most people, it was just used to type in their
    high scores for games like KC Munchkin... And the Voice was AWESOME,
    but it wasn't really used for gameplay either (ALL non-educational
    Voice-compatible games did not REQUIRE the voice). It was really just
    used for laughs in games like Smithereens and KC's Crazy Chase.

    What made the Odyssey 2 great was the software. Odyssey 2 software was
    great because IT PUT UNIQUE SPINS ON CLASSIC VIDEOGAMES. Somehow, you
    did the review - even more or less correctly identifying the good and
    awful games - without mentioning this. For example... You talked about
    how good KC Munchkin was ... but you didn't even mention that the
    frickin dots move!!! You have to chase them! And when you are down to
    one last dot, it flies around like crazy before you can catch it! It is
    now the year 2012, there have been a gazillion videogames made for a
    gazillion platforms, countless maze games and pac-man clones have been
    made, and to the best of my knowledge, the only two pac-man like games
    ever made where you have to chase the dots are (1) KC Munchkin and (2)
    some crappy DOS remake of KC Munchkin I saw years ago. This is
    screaming out for a quality remake! And yes, it's a great reason to own
    an Odyssey 2 - you can actually play a really fun game on it which
    doesn't EXIST - in fact pretty much nothing like it exists - anywhere else.

    KC's Crazy Chase - this isn't just "good" - you didn't mention that this
    was Centipede thrown into a Pac-Man maze??! That you have to eat the
    centipede ASS-FIRST? That this game was probably designed by a guy on
    mushrooms, which just happen to magically pop up in the maze all the time?

    And more examples from your review... You called Alien Invaders - Plus
    "pretty bad," because you only had a couple rows of aliens who wiggled
    back and forth... How could you not mention all the unique ideas that
    went into it? Not just the shields in front of the Aliens... There was
    a man inside your shooter, and if you got shot, you didn't die.. rather,
    a little man comes out and he has to hide under a shield so he doesn't
    get shot! But wait, there's also an extra ship under each shield, so if
    you press the button you have a new ship, but now no shield! And of
    course there's the "monster" at the top of the screen.. as soon as you
    kill the last alien, it comes down right on top of you like a bitch and
    (usually) kills you. And then there was no score in this game - it was
    a 10-point match, you against the Aliens. These were unique concepts,
    and Alien Invaders-Plus was a wickedly challenging game the first time
    you played it, demanding very exact timing. Is it a great game, or
    something people would want to play at length today? No, since it had
    little replay value after you master it by figuring out the timing. But
    this was 1978! And playing one of the most unique - and hardest - games
    ever made at that point was quite an experience. It took me several
    bleary eyed nights to finally beat those Aliens... No, it did not
    deserve an F from the videogame critic...

    You said Blockout/Breakdown was like Arkanoid or "something on an
    Amstrad"???! This was nothing like Arkanoid, or anything with Amstrad
    level graphics - it wasn't even showing what the O2 could do in terms of
    a standard breakout game (that's a homebrew someone could work on). No,
    there were only four big super low res layers of bricks. However, there
    was a reason for that - player 2 (or the computer) controlled four
    little men, one in each of the 4 rows - who would try to rebuild the
    bricks and thwart the guy who controlled the onscreen paddle. Again, it
    wasn't a great game - the O2 didn't have paddle controllers or any
    analog controllers, and it really should have had some option for player
    2 to catch the ball and throw it back down at varying speeds and
    angles. But still - it is now 2012, and to the best of my knowledge
    this is the only breakout game in videogame history which lets player 2
    rebuild the bricks! Another game screaming for a remake, and another
    great reason to own an O2...

    UFO? This wasn't just Asteroids - this was Asteroids where you can ram
    the enemies with your ship's REGENERATING SHIELD and - much more
    importantly - CHAIN REACTION EXPLOSIONS. Each destroyed "UFO" created
    three pieces of debris - two went diagonally up, one went down - and if
    you timed it right, you could get explosion after explosion after
    explosion, sometimes even destroying the Alien spaceship by chain reaction.

    Pick Axe Pete - this wasn't "dumbed-down Mappy." This was dumbed-down -
    but weirded out - Donkey Kong... with a key to go to the next level
    (which magically floated to the top of the screen), barrels (boulders)
    that not only rolled, but also bounced (requiring you to dive under
    them), and - what made it so endlessly addictive - each new level
    appeared in the color of the door you jumped into (so it was invisible
    if you jumped into a black door) and each new level was missing a piece
    of the platform! And that made those boulders bounce like crazy...
    imagine how challenging donkey kong would have been if each time you
    returned to level one, a chunk of platform disappeared and barrels were
    falling through them and bouncing all over the place....

    Freedom Fighters - again not a great game - but again, unique - defender
    where you had a single screen game using one joystick, but at any time
    you could use the other joystick for a scrolling game...

    Showdown in 2100 AD - a poorly executed version of gunfighter??? Um,
    were you thinking of Outlaw for the 2600, which was a poorly executed
    version of the early arcade game Gun Fight? Here's what you could do in
    Showdown that you couldn't do in Outlaw or Gun Fight - REFILL your
    bullets by touching a tree of the right color. SHOOT through objects
    (trees) when you are right next to them - just like in real life when
    you shoot through the branches! Ricochet bullets off the trees! Sit
    around and let the computer take over both players, and watch them shoot
    each other as you smoke a joint! And you said it was robots not cowboys
    for Magnavox's family-friendly image??? Did you realize you can shoot
    your opponent's rotting corpse until there's nothing left?
    http://www.the-nextlevel.com/odyssey2/reviews/showdown/

    And of course, nothing was more unique at the time than games that are
    partially played on the screen, and partially played on a separate board
    with real playing pieces...

    Yes, Volleyball sucked, and it had no interesting ideas. But who the
    heck buys an Odyssey 2 to play volleyball?

    Finally, you didn't mention the goofiest aspect of the system - the most
    over the top hype in videogame
    history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok, you did mention that
    the title of every single game ended with an exclamation point! But you
    did not mention the ridiculous (and sometimes quite beautiful) box
    illustrations which had absolutely nothing to do with what you'd see on
    the screen! And every game touted full "sync-sound action" - because
    all those other systems didn't sync the sound to the games!

    Well, that's just my two cents. Sorry this is probably too long to read
    on the show, but feel free to pick and choose what to respond to...

  10. #10
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    More from Doug0909

    You criticized the hardwired joysticks, which was a fair point.

    But you forgot to mention that the original model DID have detachable
    joysticks (you can still find them on ebay occasionally...).

    Also, if your joysticks on a hardwired system break, the system uses the
    exact same six wires as the Atari 2600 or any other system with a 9-pin
    connector (four directions, fire button, ground). So you can put your
    own connector on and then use any standard joystick, or you can splice
    the wires on a standard joystick and tie them together. I figured that
    out when I was about 10...

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