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miner2049er
26-03-11, 10:25
The March show is out and already the Top Ten Poll thread contains swearing, so we're doing something right!

A mammoth one again this month but when you have tiger blood and adonis DNA, you can't help but win!

EGC (Emergency Gaming Convention) - (00:00)
Hardware Flashback - (32:57)
Guinness Gaming Records - (59:28)
Homebrew Review - (61:06)
Commando Comics - (70:20)
Jay Smith Interview - (88:26)
Top Ten SEGA Mega Drive Games - (135:18)
The British Hour - (280:12)
Gaming Trivia - (297:46)
News And Listener Views - (298:30)
Fat Man Fever - (407:03)
URLs And EMails - (410:41)

As always, See the shownotes (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2011/roundup029_2011.03.htm) page. Donate (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/donate.htm) to the show.
Join our Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/RetroGamingRoundup). Listen to the February Outtakes (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/roundups/2011/RoundUp029_Outtakes.mp3).

saberman
26-03-11, 10:34
Already downloading :)

Cynicaster
26-03-11, 05:42
Geeze, I just checked the site about 10 minutes ago and the February show was still the "current" one.

D/L to commence immediately. Bi-winning!

RetroMagpieUK
26-03-11, 10:14
Winning!

miner2049er
26-03-11, 11:56
Geeze, I just checked the site about 10 minutes ago and the February show was still the "current" one. Bi-winning!

You need to refresh more often or cache less, it's been up all day.


Winning!

I win here and I win there.

Leathco
27-03-11, 04:57
Scott - A question about the Harmony cart. It'll be awhile before I can get one, but I'll write it down on my want list. Is it compatible with the 7800? I've been wanting to re-purchase a 2600 for awhile, but changed my mind and figured I'd get a 7800 (once again, down the road, not anytime soon) so I can enjoy titles from both the 7800 and 2600 libraries.

SubaruBrat
27-03-11, 05:36
It is, and your not wrong in looking to the 7800 as a 2600 solution. I would suggest the 7800 as an all in one solution for most folks.

SubaruBrat
27-03-11, 06:35
So regarding the Jay Smith interview; Of all the godfathers of classic gaming that we have had the good fortune to talk to, Jay is at the top of the list. His brilliant approach to engineering makes most engineers, and certainly myself, feel like amateur hour. Pay attention to every word this gentleman has to say.

And let me not under emphasize this point, into the interview you will hear the band kick in. We love this band, The Decedents of Erdrick,you have to check them out if they are in your town, but the volume that they were at assfucked our audio and we had background audio at 10x the interview. In a perfect world we would have the concerts in a separate room.

Cynicaster
27-03-11, 04:23
Scott - A question about the Harmony cart. It'll be awhile before I can get one, but I'll write it down on my want list. Is it compatible with the 7800? I've been wanting to re-purchase a 2600 for awhile, but changed my mind and figured I'd get a 7800 (once again, down the road, not anytime soon) so I can enjoy titles from both the 7800 and 2600 libraries.

Seeing is believing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgRZWyppHY4

The guy who made the video seriously needs to cut to the chase, skip to about 5 minutes in or so.

GarrickGreathouse
27-03-11, 09:05
Man, I'm loving the comic talk. I drift between hard core and casual comic book reader from year to year, and I've known for a while that tablets are the only way the comic industry can survive in the next few decades.

Anything less than a 10 inch tablet hurts the CBR experience. I'm hoping to get a sub-$200 10 inch Android Tablet whenever the OS matures.

British war comics of all eras are well known in the industry for being awesome. UK, It would behoove you to check out Queen & Country, an action drama about SIS operatives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_%26_Country

angelbeezy
27-03-11, 10:58
Thanks Scott for taking me back to elementary school by implying that "Angel" is a girls name. We are dealt the cards we are given and my cards had me weekly fist fighting my way through grades 1-6. Im used to it by now so no harm done but anyways, yes it is the way you said it. Regular Angel just like you would read it in queens english. So clearing that up.

Also you guys skipped over the first news item I sent you about the cover project. Its in the show notes but it was skipped over when Scott wanted to talk about the Terminator game. I hope you guys talk about it next month. Im interested in your thoughts on it.

Great show guys. No harm done with the name incident. I laughed when I heard it and said "here we go again". Maybe next month we can butch it up a little and get me some dignity back.

Sincerely yours,
A boy named Sue.

miner2049er
27-03-11, 11:25
I agree, we are seeing a revolution in the Newspaper industry as that struggles to adapt to modern news consumption methods, and Comics will almost certainly go through the same revolution at some point.

I tried the PC based readers and they wouldn't be my first weapon of choice, so yes, tablets seem perfectly suited to it.

Thanks for the link, anything called Queen And Country has to be alright by me. :)

Burgertime
27-03-11, 11:56
Really enjoyed the episode. What a way to pass the time at work while waiting for the clock to strike 6am, so I can go get my 3DS :p
I've got some Genesis/Mega Drive games to track down and try out now.

lol and yes, indeed I am 32

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 02:00
*I moved this from the top 10 to this thread*

And UK is right. There needs to be a Top 10 for the Playstation. You simply can't make the argument that the PSX isn't retro, as modern video games are no longer produced like or even resemble the first few years of the PSX library (ie pre Metal Gear Solid). Like it or the the console was revolutionary, changed the industry, and is historically significant. Anybody that makes the "It's no retro" argument is simply too far removed from current gaming to understand the progress that has been made.

It's like middle aged men that still think all rap songs start with "YO! YO! I'm MC Somebody and I'm here to say..." when that style of hip-hop hasn't been recorded or broadcast since 1989. Full motion video is no longer used in modern gaming unless it's ironic. Professional writers and voice overs have replaced office pool actors. The way players interact with 3D environments is completely different now, and the low polygon count 3D models have a special quality all their own.

Leathco
28-03-11, 02:40
I see the dedicated ebook readers dying off in the future (yes, I know sales of the Kindle and nook are staggering, but how many others just run an app for it on an iPod or Android device?), but see two forms of tablets prevailing: a small pocketable tablet like the iPod Touch for portability, and the larger 10 inch + models for easy reading at home.

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 02:48
I see the dedicated ebook readers dying off in the future (yes, I know sales of the Kindle and nook are staggering, but how many others just run an app for it on an iPod or Android device?), but see two forms of tablets prevailing: a small pocketable tablet like the iPod Touch for portability, and the larger 10 inch + models for easy reading at home.

The Nook Color has found a happy medium. It's a 7 inch LCD tablet, but it's marketed at an ebook reader. It's also half the price than an iPad with it's own app store coming soon.

Leathco
28-03-11, 02:58
The Nook Color has found a happy medium. It's a 7 inch LCD tablet, but it's marketed at an ebook reader. It's also half the price than an iPad with it's own app store coming soon.

If the nook color were ONLY an eBook reader, I'd just not be interested. However, the nook color also runs Android, and the full android market can be enabled for it by sideloading the market app. Normally I'd be really interested in it, except that theres a nook app for android as well. I really like the Archos android tablets, so you can enjoy both Kindle and nook stores on the same device.

Cynicaster
28-03-11, 03:15
*I moved this from the top 10 to this thread*

And UK is right. There needs to be a Top 10 for the Playstation. You simply can't make the argument that the PSX isn't retro, as modern video games are no longer produced like or even resemble the first few years of the PSX library (ie pre Metal Gear Solid). Like it or the the console was revolutionary, changed the industry, and is historically significant. Anybody that makes the "It's no retro" argument is simply too far removed from current gaming to understand the progress that has been made.

It's like middle aged men that still think all rap songs start with "YO! YO! I'm MC Somebody and I'm here to say..." when that style of hip-hop hasn't been recorded or broadcast since 1989. Full motion video is no longer used in modern gaming unless it's ironic. Professional writers and voice overs have replaced office pool actors. The way players interact with 3D environments is completely different now, and the low polygon count 3D models have a special quality all their own.

I'd also support a PS1 top ten. It really was a cool system, and in my opinion, is unambiguously amongst the most recent inductees into the "retro" category. There was an N64 top ten, right? At least the PS1 didn't have the gayest controllers in the history of humankind. :D

GameGavel
28-03-11, 05:08
I would love to do a PS Top-10. Another hard one for sure. Crap loads of great games! And soooooo many genres represented. Where to even start?

angelbeezy
28-03-11, 08:07
PS Top 10 should be a no brainer. I know this is something that has been discussed before but I think PS is a retro system. My belief is that if its no longer on the store shelves with the current gen systems, its not current gen and therefore a dead technology, a retro system. Once its dead, the only people who would want to play them would be retro gamers. Retro to me is not a time limit, its if its no longer widely available/no longer current. Xbox 1, Gamecube, PS2 are now retro in my book.

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 01:22
If the nook color were ONLY an eBook reader, I'd just not be interested. However, the nook color also runs Android, and the full android market can be enabled for it by sideloading the market app. Normally I'd be really interested in it, except that theres a nook app for android as well. I really like the Archos android tablets, so you can enjoy both Kindle and nook stores on the same device.

What baffles me about current Android tablets from reputable companies is that they cost MORE than the iPad. That just seems crazy to spend an extra $300. The Nook Color got it right and is priced correctly. I still think it's a bit too small to read comics on, but maybe they will release a 10 inch version.

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 01:26
PS Top 10 should be a no brainer. I know this is something that has been discussed before but I think PS is a retro system. My belief is that if its no longer on the store shelves with the current gen systems, its not current gen and therefore a dead technology, a retro system. Once its dead, the only people who would want to play them would be retro gamers. Retro to me is not a time limit, its if its no longer widely available/no longer current. Xbox 1, Gamecube, PS2 are now retro in my book.

I understand Scott's point about the overall feel of the system being modern, but that didn't really happen until Metal Gear Solid. Before that, the console was a weird hodgepodge of original ideas and first gen stumbling blocks. Also, Sony's openness to third parties and the low cost of entry/CD manufacturing led to some crazy original games.

For example, I give you "No One Can Stop Mr. Domino", it's like Paper Boy meets a Stroke.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsB8ptkq5_I

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 01:37
I would love to do a PS Top-10. Another hard one for sure. Crap loads of great games! And soooooo many genres represented. Where to even start?

Because the library was so huge wouldn't you have to choose games that best represented their genre or sub-genre? Like how Flashback stood for both itself and Out of this world (and by proxy, Blackthorn)

Example, I'm thinking UK Mike's list would be Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Gran Tourismo 2, and Colin McRae Rally. It would be easier to say Wipeout represents arcade racers, GT2 represents race sims. That frees up two more slots for No One Can Stop Mr. Domino and Parappa Da Rappa on his list alone.

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 02:38
Just for the record, the US Government has nothing to do with Ubisoft not bringing We Dare to the US. The US Government also has no control over region locking on Youtube, you can still search We Dare on youtube and find the trailer.

Ubisoft is simply trying to avoid public outcry from religious groups and moral watch dogs for a game that really wouldn't sell anyway (NPD numbers prove that very few 3rd party Wii titles sell). There are plenty of games featuring sex in America, but none are for a 'childs play thing' like the Wii. Remember Hot Coffie, the incomplete sex scene in GTA:San Andreas that required a modded PS2 to even view? It was uptight jackholes and self proposed Defenders of American Morality like Jack Thompson that files lawsuits against Take Two.

miner2049er
28-03-11, 02:42
I'm thinking UK Mike's list would be Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Gran Tourismo 2, and Colin McRae Rally.

Ha! Haven't thought about it but you probably got 2 of them.

Parappa was cool too. Have you played Breakdance on C64?

GarrickGreathouse
28-03-11, 02:57
Ha! Haven't thought about it but you probably got 2 of them.

Parappa was cool too. Have you played Breakdance on C64?

Yes, but it I was young and it was a bootleg with no instructions. I had no idea what I was doing.

Leathco
28-03-11, 07:15
A top 10 PSX would be SO hard. I'd have trouble limiting myself to four.....but if I had too.....

Metal Gear Solid - Love it or hate it, it was the bridge between old school and modern games. It was almost more of an experience than a game.....I beat it the first time I rented it in around 5 hours. It was a fun 5 hours though.

Final Fantasy 7 - Another love it or hate it game. I'm torn between 7 and 9, both were amazing for their day. I enjoy the depth of most RPG games, and this one delivered in spades, but in a beautifully created world as well.

Twisted Metal 2 - The ultimate PSX multiplayer game. The cars were perfectly balanced against each other. It reminded me of multiplayer Doom, but with vehicles instead of people. Great fun.

Kagero - This game is a joy to play. You are in a castle and create traps for people trying to raid it. There's so many options of traps to use, or using one trap to launch a baddie (well....I guess YOU are the baddie in this game) into a series of other traps. Great fun.

So many other games deserve to be up there though. I've actually only played No One Can Stop Mr. Domino on a OPM demo disc years ago as a kid, and you just now reminded me of it again. I think I'm gonna check it out now, this time a full version.

angelbeezy
28-03-11, 08:20
I understand Scott's point about the overall feel of the system being modern, but that didn't really happen until Metal Gear Solid. Before that, the console was a weird hodgepodge of original ideas and first gen stumbling blocks. Also, Sony's openness to third parties and the low cost of entry/CD manufacturing led to some crazy original games.

To me, retro isnt about a feeling, its about a time, an era that no longer exists. When you revisit that era, the feelings come with it. But your feelings about different era's are going to be different because your age is different when you experienced them. I will never get the same feelings about the Xbox or PS2 as I did about the N.E.S. or the S.N.E.S. because I was a little kid with no money when those were new and each new game felt like Christmas because chances are, thats the only time I got one. So if I wait for Xbox to give me that feeling it will never happen because by that time I had my own money, a job, and a girlfriend, and video games were no longer the reason I was rushing home.

Thats why to me if its not on the shelf, its retro.

New gamers start gaming every console generation, so an 8 year old who started gaming with the ps2 is now 18 and an adult who feels the same way about ps2/xbox/gamecube as we do about Atari, N.E.S., and S.N.E.S. and I bet they would say its retro now.

Great game vid post by the way. PS had some weird ones. and most were awesome.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 12:35
I am sure I have said this on the show, but there are old cars and there are classic cars. An 87 911 Turbo whale tail will one day be a classic car, however the Plymouth Aries will just be an old car and when the last one disappears it won't even be noticed. There was also a golden age of video games that was much like the golden age of hollywood, or aviation, or cars. Systems of that age are special and the term classic applies. For me the Xbox or PS1 is outside of that golden era, they were systems I bought for my kid, not myself, and they don't evoke any sentiment when I see or play one.

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:02
I am sure I have said this on the show, but there are old cars and there are classic cars. An 87 911 Turbo whale tail will one day be a classic car, however the Plymouth Aries will just be an old car and when the last one disappears it won't even be noticed. There was also a golden age of video games that was much like the golden age of hollywood, or aviation, or cars. Systems of that age are special and the term classic applies. For me the Xbox or PS1 is outside of that golden era, they were systems I bought for my kid, not myself, and they don't evoke any sentiment when I see or play one.

Your car comparison suggests the PS1 brought nothing new or exceptional to the table when it was released. Give us an actual list of reasons why the PS1 isn't a classic, not hyperbole about cars and airplanes.

The fact that the console was originally developed as the 32 bit CD-Rom add on to the SNES places it will withing that generation. The classic action adventure game Secret of Mana was originally intended to be the flagship title of this Nintendo/Sony collaboration, and when Nintendo pulled out of the deal nearly half of the games content was cut to fit cartage size limitations. How is that not historically significant?

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:23
In the late 90's, the Playstation 1 SCPH-100x hardware revision (very first gen) was considered by audiophiles to be one of the best sounding audio CD Playback devices ever manufactured. They caught a very high price on e-bay in those days. How is that that not historically significant?

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:38
To me, retro isnt about a feeling, its about a time, an era that no longer exists.

And that's precisely why pre-Metal Gear Solid PS1 is retro. Love it or hate it, MGS was leaps and bounds above anything at the time when it came to ambition and scope. The entire PS2, Gamecube, XBox era was based largely on the foundation laid by MGS and Ocarina of Time. However you need to look back at PS1 games from 1994 to 1998. They simply do not make games like that any more.

There is a look, feel, and tone to every PS1 exclusive title from that time that was both unique and never duplicated. It was a weird stumbling block, able to do more than any console before yet still unable to fully execute many of ideas correctly. Go back and play games like Jumping Flash, Parappa, Spider and Tomba.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 03:08
I think the analogy is valid. Sure, the PS1 was the mature phase of the CD based gaming system at a practical cost and performance level, and it launched a new generation of consoles, but ones that I wasn't interested in. But in the car analogy it was an SUV, roomy, practical, had towing capacity and not interesting to me. There are many things in life like this, think of the wood and polished brass revolvers of the civil war, they were artistic. The modern semiauto is a boring black lookalike but it can shoot faster, hold more rounds, reload faster and is a new level. I get the practicality of that, and I carry a modern gun but it doesn't have the class that a Remington 1860 has. Some guys collect and polish vintage revolvers and others go to the latest Glock. Somethings make you turn your head, the PS1, XBOXs, etc. don't make me do that, and that is what my list is, do I feel it or not.

Cynicaster
29-03-11, 05:04
I can see both Scott's and Garrick's points in this debate. Where I struggle is in trying to understand why the N64 is worthy of the spotlight but the PS1 isn't, when the PS1 library trounces that of the N64 by any reasonable standard.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 05:14
I have divided feelings on the N64, there are some great games on it and don't get me wrong there are some great games on the PS1 (Colin McCrea Rally) but as a whole the system is leaning more toward old system than classic system for me. The fact that it is cartridge based kinda gives me that retro feel, but the fact I bought it for my son and not myself makes it less retro at the same time.

angelbeezy
29-03-11, 06:30
Scott it sounds like your definition of retro is totally dependent on if you liked it or not. Based on the podcast and forum comments, it seems like your interest in new games and systems stopped with the super nintendo/sega genesis era. After that, you just seemed to have written off most things game related since that time and just purchased them for your son. (except for you appreciation of the dreamcast) It's the "Back in my day, things were better" way of thinking and by that definition ps1/sega saturn era on up will never be considered retro.

Retro shouldn't be defined by a style of game playing or game making, I enjoy your site/podcast and this forum because its a place to talk about all games that aren't being talked about today. If thats the train of thought then where should someone like me go to talk about ps1/saturn/ps2/dreamcast/etc. and when would be the time to add those platforms to your definition of retro? If we get into that mindset, the answer may be never.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 06:57
It isn't that I don't like all modern gaming, but frankly the consoles of that middle era didn't capture my interest. I did pick up a 3DS on pre-order and was playing it just now with the Augmented Reality games and if that isn't modern I don't know what is. I think this will become a classic system one day for me, but maybe not retro. I guess I view retro more as an era, and classic as a mark of personal appeal, which is as you pointed out a matter of subjective opinion. Sometimes those views gel with a common consensus and sometimes they don't. Problem is the concepts of retro and classic get mixed at times, I know I do it here and there. But those are certainly only my views, I have heard from others that retro stops at 84. I know pinball purists who don't even consider video games to be valid, and I know folks who think Halo is already retro and classic. It runs the spectrum and all takes on it are welcome here at all times.

angelbeezy
29-03-11, 07:20
It isn't that I don't like all modern gaming, but frankly the consoles of that middle era didn't capture my interest. I did pick up a 3DS on pre-order and was playing it just now with the Augmented Reality games and if that isn't modern I don't know what is. I think this will become a classic system one day for me, but maybe not retro. I guess I view retro more as an era, and classic as a mark of personal appeal, which is as you pointed out a matter of subjective opinion. Sometimes those views gel with a common consensus and sometimes they don't. Problem is the concepts of retro and classic get mixed at times, I know I do it here and there. But those are certainly only my views, I have heard from others that retro stops at 84. I know pinball purists who don't even consider video games to be valid, and I know folks who think Halo is already retro and classic. It runs the spectrum and all takes on it are welcome here at all times.

That makes more sense. I think its just different definitions for different people. For me Retro is anything that is no longer current and Classic is any "Great" or "Revolutionary" retro game.

saberman
29-03-11, 11:49
I'd also support a PS1 top ten. It really was a cool system, and in my opinion, is unambiguously amongst the most recent inductees into the "retro" category.

I agree there should be a PS1 top ten. My definition of Retro is any system sufficiently old that the true classics can shine through. I.e. the media hype has died down around certain games and thereís a general consensus. This must be the case by now for the PS1. Also I never owned a PS1 so would be very interested in the discussion around the PS1 games.


There was an N64 top ten, right? At least the PS1 didn't have the gayest controllers in the history of humankind. :D

More confirmation Iím the only person in the whole world that liked the N64 controller.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 01:18
Already in the works!

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:37
I think the analogy is valid. ...towing capacity...polished brass revolvers...the modern semiauto is a boring

Again, I'm asking for reasons the PS1 is historically insignificant, not info about cars and guns.

Why is the PS1 a historically insignificant console? It's a simple question, answer it by referencing specific games, hardware, and social impact.

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:54
I agree there should be a PS1 top ten. My definition of Retro is any system sufficiently old that the true classics can shine through. I.e. the media hype has died down around certain games and there’s a general consensus. This must be the case by now for the PS1. Also I never owned a PS1 so would be very interested in the discussion around the PS1 games.

Scott is right in that age doesn't always = classic or retro. The XBox and PS2 aren't yet retro or classic as the XBox 360 and PS3 are simply doing what the previous generation did, only much much better. There has not been a huge shift, the SNES did NOT make the Genesis retro.

The PS1 is highly unique. Sony left the console almost completely open to 3rd parties and no other console before or after had such a variety of games, successful or not.

It lowered the price point of games down from $60 - $70 to $40, bringing more people into gaming. In the US it was the first console marketed to adults and not children (it was marketed specifically to 19 year olds).

It was the first affordable console that brought enhanced arcade ports into the living room. Tekken, Ride Racer and other series looked better on the PSX than they did in the arcade.

I think a Top 10 should consist of games that represent the consoles uniqueness.

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 01:58
On a side note, the Sega Saturn was also a weird console. The 3D processor used four sided geometry... That's right, Quadrilaterals not Polygons. That's why Saturn ports of PS1 games were always jankie. That's why there aren't any top quality Saturn emulators. That's why Saturn games don't get re-released on XBox Live Arcade or Playstation Network.

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 02:02
Jumping Flash. What kind of lunatic came up with this game? What game since has you play as a robo-rabbit Mech in a fully 3D, first person jump puzzle platformer? They simply don't make games like this anymore, it was a product of it's time.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2hukvZ0zBw

Compare Jumping Flash to MGS1. Metal Gear Solid looks like an ugly version of a current game. MGS may be a classic, but it is in no way retro. That's why I keep referencing pre MGS PS1 titles.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuTmDljP_QY

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 02:17
I would hope I have never said it is historically insignificant, it is by any reasonable measure. What was a weird thing for me is that I was deployed in Bosnia with IFOR and literally being shot at for breakfast lunch and dinner, and then a quick flight back to my home in Germany and then back to the US within weeks and I was back in school. Suddenly I met friends, old and new, with this playstation. If you can understand my perspective, it was a huge shift into something that was not familiar and at the time not identifiable. I had a leap from the Genesis to PS1.

Cynicaster
29-03-11, 02:47
Scott is right in that age doesn't always = classic or retro. The XBox and PS2 aren't yet retro or classic as the XBox 360 and PS3 are simply doing what the previous generation did, only much much better. There has not been a huge shift, the SNES did NOT make the Genesis retro.

The PS1 is highly unique. Sony left the console almost completely open to 3rd parties and no other console before or after had such a variety of games, successful or not.

It lowered the price point of games down from $60 - $70 to $40, bringing more people into gaming. In the US it was the first console marketed to adults and not children (it was marketed specifically to 19 year olds).

It was the first affordable console that brought enhanced arcade ports into the living room. Tekken, Ride Racer and other series looked better on the PSX than they did in the arcade.

I think a Top 10 should consist of games that represent the consoles uniqueness.

All great points, some of which I didn't even think of.

For what it's worth, regarding your comment about "marketing to adults", I can say unequivocally that if it weren't for the PS1 I wouldn't be in this forum today. I really lost interest in video games in the midst of the Genesis era, and there was a stretch from about 1992ish to 1997ish during which I can't say for sure that I played a single video game. Then, I played a PS1 and thought it was fantastic so I went right out and bought one with money I earned working my first year engineering internship. I did have another lull in gaming during the latter PS2 years (mostly due to life circumstances as opposed to lack of interest) but I'm now loving my PS3 and I've been more or less back in the saddle since (and because of) the PS1.

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 02:58
I would hope I have never said it is historically insignificant, it is by any reasonable measure. What was a weird thing for me is that I was deployed in Bosnia with IFOR and literally being shot at for breakfast lunch and dinner, and then a quick flight back to my home in Germany and then back to the US within weeks and I was back in school. Suddenly I met friends, old and new, with this playstation. If you can understand my perspective, it was a huge shift into something that was not familiar and at the time not identifiable. I had a leap from the Genesis to PS1.

Now THAT makes sense. Now I see where you're coming from. If you had been gaming the entire time, and in one week went from Vector Man on the Genesis to Crash Bandicoot of the PS1, maybe the shift in presentation and gameplay wouldn't have been so drastic.

Maybe a Top 10 could bring you up to speed on early PS1 stuff?

GarrickGreathouse
29-03-11, 03:07
All great points, some of which I didn't even think of.

For what it's worth, regarding your comment about "marketing to adults", I can say unequivocally that if it weren't for the PS1 I wouldn't be in this forum today. I really lost interest in video games in the midst of the Genesis era, and there was a stretch from about 1992ish to 1997ish during which I can't say for sure that I played a single video game. Then, I played a PS1 and thought it was fantastic so I went right out and bought one with money I earned working my first year engineering internship. I did have another lull in gaming during the latter PS2 years (mostly due to life circumstances as opposed to lack of interest) but I'm now loving my PS3 and I've been more or less back in the saddle since (and because of) the PS1.

The Retronauts Podcast did an entire episode on the Mini-Crash of those years. Console gaming hit a major slump at that time characterized by the Saturn, Jaguar, 3DO and CD-I tanking. Large companies were pulling support and developers were folding quickly. Sony decided to market to 19 year olds. Not just because 19 year olds would by the console, but every 15 year old wants to be 19 and every 30 year old wants to be 19 again.

chrisbid
29-03-11, 06:49
i like the idea of an early psx top 10. the psx wasnt a world beater until 1998, and the earlier software had more of that strange charm than the later shovelware titles.

while not specific to the psx, one old time graphical style i always found endearing were flat shaded polygons. maybe a top ten list of these style games (think star fox, virtua racing, hard drivin, irobot, etc) would be appropriate.

Bango Skank UK
29-03-11, 09:00
I caught up to date with the archives just as this edition is released, YAY!

Fantastic, epic cast (of occasionally questionable taste) sprinkled with some delicious Sheen-isms.

SubaruBrat
29-03-11, 09:49
In the future we will strive for more than questionable.

Misanthroat
31-03-11, 03:45
Sorry to interrupt the "intellectual" conversation but i was wondering.... where did those song parodies like the Dick Tasting Machine song or whatever he is saying come from?
Every time those have come on I can't stop laughing.

-Misanthroat

eldphm
31-03-11, 07:25
Misanthroat, I agree totally. Miner2049er played the whole song during the "interlude" at the news recording session and it was hilarious.

By the way, I have heard that they are used by doctors and their secretaries and that every Star Trek captain has a personal one, not totally sure about the spelling though.


I Laughed... I Cried... I Fudged My Undies
-Red Peters

/eldphm

miner2049er
31-03-11, 08:45
Sorry to interrupt the "intellectual" conversation

Well, somebody should.


where did those song parodies like the Dick Tasting Machine song or whatever he is saying come from?

Yeah, eldphm is right, it's Red Peters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U65_0TlycIw), and it's a dic-tation machine.

Misanthroat
31-03-11, 06:08
Thanks for clearing that up Eldphm.



Yeah, eldphm is right, it's Red Peters (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U65_0TlycIw), and it's a dic-tation machine.

Ah, that definetly makes a lot more sense... the images that went through my head when I thought it was a "tasting machine" were frightening and intriguing at the same time.

angelbeezy
01-04-11, 07:07
"You have to wake up in the middle of the night to stay on top of me" -SoCal Mike.

HAHAHAHAHAHA You can always count on him to never let us forget.

angelbeezy
01-04-11, 07:21
Hey U.K.Mike, you type exactly like you talk. When I read your posts, I hear your voice in my head. Its making my brain attempt to change the letter Z (Zee) to Z (Zed) and drive on the left side of the road. I don't approve.

miner2049er
01-04-11, 08:56
That's because I read all my posts back to myself when I type them.

I also realise that not all people read as quickly as me so I type quite slowly.

angelbeezy
01-04-11, 06:54
That's because I read all my posts back to myself when I type them.

I also realise that not all people read as quickly as me so I type quite slowly.

HAHAHAHA your such the humanitarian. Thanks for being sensitive to people like me who went to public schools.

Bango Skank UK
06-04-11, 05:58
Hey U.K.Mike, you type exactly like you talk. When I read your posts, I hear your voice in my head. Its making my brain attempt to change the letter Z (Zee) to Z (Zed) and drive on the left side of the road. I don't approve.

Well, since we invented English we reserve the right to say Z how we like :CRZY:

indieseoul
07-04-11, 12:36
Languages aren't invented they evolve but that's another matter. Sorry guys no trip to N. Korea, but I have returned from my trip in SE Asia. The show was another awesome one except of course for the audio glitches. Way to go Socal! That will teach you to stop wearing a mic on your bikini top. The combination of man boobs and hair will always cause problems in audio just ask fat Elvis. I see Scott's point about the psone not being exactly retro but at the same time it would be nice to hear a top ten list of the best games. As for android tablets and comic book readers I agree that a tablet makes the perfect form factor however who is going to spend 700 bucks on an ipad to read comic books. I guess it's just one of those things people say to justify buying the complete waste of time that is the "IPAD" The conversation usually goes like this:

Observer: "Wow what is that thing?" Ipad owner: "Oh this is my ipad." Observer: "What can it do?"
Ipad owner: "Well you can surf the internet on it play crappy touch games listen to music and watch videos." Observer: "Oh you mean like an Iphone?" Ipad owner: "Uhm.. yeah well but it's bigger." Observer: "Oh so it won't fit in your pocket." Ipad owner: "No it won't but uhm...it's bigger and stuff." Observer: "Oh so it's like a laptop you can type up your quarterly reports for work?" Ipad owner: "Well not really it's pretty shit for typing on." Observer: "Oh....wait a minute why did you buy that thing?" (dead silence) Ipad owner: "Steve Jobs told me to."

SubaruBrat
07-04-11, 01:49
And..... Powned

Leathco
07-04-11, 02:28
I STILL don't get the appeal of the iPad. Buy an iPod Touch 4th gen, it fits in your pocket, has a decently poewrful processor, and a 720p camcorder built in. No phone contract needed with the built in wifi.

Dhalamar
08-04-11, 12:29
I STILL don't get the appeal of the iPad. Buy an iPod Touch 4th gen, it fits in your pocket, has a decently poewrful processor, and a 720p camcorder built in. No phone contract needed with the built in wifi.

But ... but ... Steve said it's good! :P

And honestly, I'd even go so far back as the 2nd generation iPod Touch. Will still run 99% of the games and apps out there without a hitch. That's what I used for the longest time (until it got broken) and was perfectly happy.

Bango Skank UK
08-04-11, 09:04
I didn't have much experience of the I-Pad until I met a lady on holiday using one and now I know that it's basically a huge I-phone. Regardless of how pointless it is, there's no denying it's a nice looking piece of kit.

Byte Knight
09-04-11, 04:30
Love my "over-sized iPhone" - it's the ultimate in portability. I've got an iPhone as well, but the screen is too small for serious web surfing. Of course, I've been an Apple guy since the early 80's...

Dhalamar
09-04-11, 04:42
Love my "over-sized iPhone" - it's the ultimate in portability. I've got an iPhone as well, but the screen is too small for serious web surfing. Of course, I've been an Apple guy since the early 80's...

All hail Lord Steve!

On that note, up until 2000 or 2001 when I got broadband I used a Macintosh SE (40MB hard drive, 4MB of RAM) running system 6.0.8 to check my email, and I've got a 32GB iPod Touch (dunno what generation) on layaway at a local pawn shop right now.

And I think I've got an old Powerbook 3400C and a couple more around here somewhere. G3's and stuff. Nothing modern, though.

GarrickGreathouse
14-04-11, 03:21
The iPad and other tablets are cutting into laptop sales, the form factor is a hit with consumers. And consumer purchases are all that matter in the long run.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/207078/ipad_tablets_cannibalizing_laptop_netbook_sales.ht ml

Also take into account that Nintendo president Satoru Iwata is running scared, unsure how his expensive new platform and $50 games can compete with cheap or free app store offerings from Apple and Android.
http://www.vg247.com/2011/03/07/gdc-11-iwata-isolated-as-ipad-2-signals-serious-apple-intent/

And anybody that claims tablets only offer "Crappy Touch Games" obviously hasn't played any. Here's a top ten list of games the best iPhone games available. I would like Indieseoul to post his reviews of these games. He's obviously played them all, how else would he have the authority to judge them all as "crappy". Indieseoul, post a video of you playing three of these games and give an honest review.
http://razortv.matchmovegames.com/newsarticle/top-iphone-games

Here's the tablet I'm holding out for, the 10 inch Tegra Cruz.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Velocity-Micro-Readies-New-10-Inch-Tegra-Cruz-Tablet-176633.shtml

miner2049er
14-04-11, 04:12
Here's a top ten list of games the best iPhone games available.

I know I'm an old fart but I don't like the controls on the iPod Touch / iPhone, and if that's the best it can offer then I am happy to never buy another game for one.

Top 10 iPhone Games of All Time

1. Plants Vs Zombies - Works better on DS but not a great game anyway.
2. Canabalt - Haven't tried it.
3. Bookworm - Haven't tried it.
4. N.O.V.A - Haven't tried it.
5. Peggle - Boring.
6. iBlast Moki - Haven't tried it.
7. Cut the Rope - Nice idea but not a great game and the controls have let me down too many times.
8. Doodle Jump - Is that really classed as a game? The move from side to side game.
9. Bejeweled 2 - Great game but it's done much better elsewhere.
10. Angry Birds - I don't see what the fuss is about. I don't like it.

GameGavel
14-04-11, 05:31
I am still loving my iPad. It has pretty much ended the playing of games on my touch. Love the bigger screen and more control realestate. There are some great games on this thing for sure. It has a selection that is unmatched on any other system and wets my appetite for both classic games, classic style games, and current generation games.

Some of my current fav's are: Dungeon Hunter, Infinity Field, N.O.V.A. 2, Infinity Gene, Tapper, Solomon's Keep, Warblade, Minigore, ChuChu Rocket, Forget.Me.Not (crap you all have to get this!), IDOS, Bird Zapper, Drop7, MinoTron, Mino Rescue, Rage, Meteor Blitz, Pac'N Jump, NanoTank, Radiant, Pinball HD, X-Plane, Duke 3D, QWAK, HacX, Sword & Sworcery EP and the amazing Infinity Blade.

Leathco
14-04-11, 07:15
Using my 2g iPod, there ARE games I like, but ironically most of em that I enjoy aren't the more popular ones.

I love ANYTHING put out by square-enix, and bought Final Fantasy 1, 2, and 3, Chaos Rings, Secret of Mana, Crystal Defenders, Vanguard Storm, and even Voice Fantasy. Their games are expensive but incredibly polished. Did I mention I love RPGs?

I only own a few puzzle games. I love Puzzle Quest, Bookworm, and Castlevania Encore of the Night.

For some weird reason everytime a retro collection comes out or goes cheap in price I gotta grab it. I picked up all of Segas Genesis games at the 99 cent mark. I also enjoy Splatterhouse, Pac-Man CE, Intellivision, and C64. Flashback is good too. I also picked up the ports of Doom, Wolfenstien, and Duke Nukem.

A game I used to play a lot when I had a Palm m100 was Kyles Quest. Kyles Quest 2 is on the iPod and has a ton of user-created sections. Really fun stuff.

I also have an iControlpad and emulators for NES, SNES, and TG-16. Fun stuff. Along with all that, I use my Kindle app for reading books, and have bought close to 30 books, usually buying one a month. Its great having a whole library in your pocket.

With all that said, I recently said goodbye to my trusty Blackberry phone (keypad stopped working) and ordered an Android phone, a Samsung Intercept. Mostly due to the fact it has iCOntrolPad support, we'll see how it goes.

Cynicaster
15-04-11, 10:05
I know I'm an old fart but I don't like the controls on the iPod Touch / iPhone, and if that's the best it can offer then I am happy to never buy another game for one.

Top 10 iPhone Games of All Time

1. Plants Vs Zombies - Works better on DS but not a great game anyway.
2. Canabalt - Haven't tried it.
3. Bookworm - Haven't tried it.
4. N.O.V.A - Haven't tried it.
5. Peggle - Boring.
6. iBlast Moki - Haven't tried it.
7. Cut the Rope - Nice idea but not a great game and the controls have let me down too many times.
8. Doodle Jump - Is that really classed as a game? The move from side to side game.
9. Bejeweled 2 - Great game but it's done much better elsewhere.
10. Angry Birds - I don't see what the fuss is about. I don't like it.

Is that really the list? Heh, I actually have 5 of those games on my iPod and so far I'm less than convinced that these iOS devices deserve all of the praise that gets heaped on them.

I recently had to go to Austria for work and I'm too cheap to buy a dedicated portable gaming system (it would probably just collect dust) so I decided to try some of these iOS games on my Touch. They're decent, I suppose. They kept me entertained for the flight (until the crappy battery died).

I'm with UK, I don't understand why Angry Birds is so popular. I played it a fair bit on that trip to Austria back in January and I was mildly entertained but I haven't once felt the urge since to pick it up and play it again. I guess as soon as something generates enough hype, it sells like hotcakes. Like the iPad itself, for instance (ooh, cheap shot).

As gaming devices, I'm almost inclined to lump the iOS devices in a similar category as the Wii, in that a) they use "non-traditional" controls; b) they are at their best when running games specifically designed to use the unique controls; c) games that weren't designed for the controls can invariably be experienced much better elsewhere; and d) any games that are actually good are good in spite of the controls, not because of them.

Before anybody blows a gasket, I understand that last point is completely IMO. I know the common counterpoint is "these controls are creative/innovative/revolutionary!". To that, I say no, they're just different. Not only are they different, but in comparison to a traditional handheld controller, they're very limiting. The game designers have to either design very basic and repetitive games or, if they want to do more than that, they have to find ways to shoehorn in the clunky controls (on-screen d-pad for the fucking FAIL, BTW).

Hey, I still love me some Atari 2600, a system which built a dynasty on basic, repetitive, but addictive games--so don't think I believe that every game needs to be as large and complex as certain PS3 and XBOX360 titles (for example). But the point is, at least on modern systems that use normal controllers--consoles, handhelds, or otherwise--I have the choice of playing the basic/addictive games, the complex games, and everything in between.

indieseoul
16-04-11, 03:40
Garrick said: "And anybody that claims tablets only offer "Crappy Touch Games" obviously hasn't played any. Here's a top ten list of games the best iPhone games available. I would like Indieseoul to post his reviews of these games. He's obviously played them all, how else would he have the authority to judge them all as "crappy". Indieseoul, post a video of you playing three of these games and give an honest review."

Hey Garrick, I have in fact played touch games. I am a beloved owner of an android phone. I'm not saying that all touch games are crappy just saying that most of them are. I am addicted to angry birds and I love any touch game that is simple enough for the touch controls to work. They are fine for my subway commutes because they are easy to play for a few minutes. My main point was that the IPAD is simply an over sized I-phone. Which is exactly what it is. I wouldn't buy an android tablet either. I think that if the price point of tablets were say around the price point of netbooks then I might just buy one. And furthermore Garrick a joke lighten up!

Dhalamar
16-04-11, 03:42
I never understood people's deal with the onscreen controls. Except for some games that just have shit control to begin with I've never had any problems with them. Virtual directional pads, virtual analog sticks, for the most part they work just fine for me when developers actually try with it. Gameloft with their more recent games comes to mind with that.

People who are used to keyboard/mouse controls are going to have problems with analog sticks, and vice versa. The same thing with directional pads versus analog sticks. It isnt' any different with those traditional control methods compared to something like a touch screen or even the Wii/PS3's motion controls.

I think it's just games that use a non traditional control method either by choice like the Wii or because it happens to be there like an iPod Touch or similar device throw people off. People who play a shooter with a controller ... it's going to throw them off to play with a keyboard and mouse because it's "non traditional" for them and they're probably going to hate it because they can't play as well.

I know it was like that for me recently. I tried playing Killzone 3 with the Move controls. I can definitely see where it would be playable (and at a slight aiming advantage online) but I already know how to play it with the controller. It's done extremely well, it's just different and it throws me off.

Everyone always wants to stick traditional control methods on non-traditional systems, whether it's ACTUALLY non-traditional like the Wii or iPod, or just not traditional for them because they suck at using the non-traditional way.

The Wii - people would rather just have a controller for some games.

iPods - people want controllers all the time with that thing.

The PC - The only genres that really benefit from keyboard/mouse control (that I play) are first person shooters. Add strategy games and RPGs to that list, but I don't play them. I'll take a controller over the keyboard and/or mouse any day for something like a side scrolling platformer or shmup.

360/PS3 - First person shooters, keyboard and mouse all the way. I think both those systems should have support for that out of the box for those games. If people wanna compete in CoD? Get a Call of Duty branded keyboard/mouse setup. I'm sure the money grubbing whores at Activision would love to charge an arm and a leg for a Dollar General brand keyboard and mouse setup with neato graphics on it.

And that's just ME. :P I personally don't like the motion controls because I'd rather have a controller in my hand and not have to wave my arms around like a jackass, but there's still games I love despite that. I'd rather play platformers with a good directional pad than an analog stick (Genesis 6 button ftw kthx), and I'd rather play a first person shooter with keyboard/mouse controls.

It doesn't mean I don't use those other options just because I'm not used to them, I get around the learning curve and deal with it ... or in the case of shooters sometimes it's cheaper for me just to get it on the console than it is to upgrade my PC and run it there. heh

Oh, and Angry Birds sucks. I don't think I'll ever understand the fascination with that. But it's usually on a top list because it doesn't try to do anything special with the controls, it uses what the device is good for. About the only oddball on that list above is NOVA, but there's an easy answer to that : it's basically Halo on the iPod, and there are LOTS of Halo fan who has the device creams his pants because of that. Other than that it's just a well done FPS for the device that plays decently. All the other games work and work well with a touch screen.

BydoEmpire73
18-04-11, 01:07
I finally got around to listening to this month's episode - great as always. I have to admit, I do occasionally skip the British Hour segment (shame on me!), but this month's "Sports Wrapup" at the end of it was one of the funniest things I've heard in a long time - and actually pretty darn accurate. I was completely cracking up. Well done, sir, I tip my hat to you. Absolutely hilarious.

Chris
25-04-11, 12:23
Another great episode guys. I missed the whole Genesis boat, so I knew little of what was talked about in the top 10. I have one burning question for UK Mike....are you going to the royal wedding on Friday???????

miner2049er
25-04-11, 07:42
The problem with being Best Man at a wedding is that you seldom get a chance to prove it.

I have my deerstalker, smoking jacket and slippers packed in the Morgan, ready for my drive to Londinium using only A roads.

It should take about 7 hours to get there, and about 5 minutes to set up the bunting as a nice surprise for the happy couple.

Chris
26-04-11, 03:31
The problem with being Best Man at a wedding is that you seldom get a chance to prove it.

I have my deerstalker, smoking jacket and slippers packed in the Morgan, ready for my drive to Londinium using only A roads.

It should take about 7 hours to get there, and about 5 minutes to set up the bunting as a nice surprise for the happy couple.

Sssssssssssooooooooo yer tellin' me you'll be there.............................YES!!!!!! I knew it!

SubaruBrat
26-04-11, 06:46
You have a Morgan? Aero 8 by any chance?

miner2049er
26-04-11, 10:48
You have a Morgan? Aero 8 by any chance?

No, horse (http://www.horses-and-horse-information.com/articles/morgan-horse.shtml).

saberman
26-04-11, 08:42
Talking of weddings and horses, has everyone seen this it is hilarious:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8