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miner2049er
04-01-10, 04:49
I've been offered one of these (http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=disco+fever&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick) at a fairly good price so I'm gonna take it I think.

It wouldn't have been my first choice to own as a pinball machine but beggars can't be choosers.

I'm not entirely convinced about banana shaped flippers (apparently only 2 were made) but we'll give it a go.

Oh, and it doesn't work.










yet.

RetroPom
04-01-10, 10:16
Hi Mike,

Is this your Xmas present to yourself?

Just checked out your IPDB link - Never heard of the game personally, and those flippers sure are different!

If I had the money/space & mechanical/electrical apptitude I'd certainly go for it :)

GOOD LUCK

SubaruBrat
04-01-10, 10:35
There is nothing that says you MUST keep those flippers. Now, system 3 is a system with some pretty common failures that are easy to identify and fix. There are also diagnostic ROMs out there to help out. The most common problem is in the safety signal that indicates a locked up CPU board and prevents the system from sitting there burning a coil.

The book on System 3 is here (http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/index1.htm), you should have no trouble following this excellent guide.

Edwards80
05-01-10, 12:17
I played one of these a few years ago at a classic car show of all places. They had swapped to regular flippers.

Was unfortunately at a ridiculous price but it was a fun table. Good luck with the project :D

SubaruBrat
05-01-10, 01:40
That machine might grown on you, it wouldn't be my theme choice either but it has a retro feel, and wasn't too far into the Solid State era.

I would strongly suggest downloading and printing out the two parts of that guide I posted, and then download and print out the manual (http://www.ipdb.org/files/686/Williams_1978_Disco_Fever_Operators_Handbook.pdf) and put them all in a binder. Pick up a basic digital multimeter and soldering kit and you should be easily able to put this into factory fresh condition.

Do you know what the symptoms are yet?

miner2049er
05-01-10, 10:22
Do you know what the symptoms are yet?

Scott, I uploaded pics to your FTP.

The guy bought it around 5 years ago and ran it for a long time before selling it on ebay about 2 years ago. The buyer had it 2 days and broke it so returned it for fixing which was done but he had a major heart attack before he could collect it again.

He never showed up or took calls so he is either brown bread or no longer into pinball.

The owner has not looked at it but thinks it is a stuck solenoid which may show on the pics.

It comes with some spare boards and a Bally playfield for spares.

6 inches of snow have brought the UK to a halt so it will be next week I think before it shows up here.

SubaruBrat
06-01-10, 01:17
Ok, we will skype up and talk about some troubleshooting strategy (which we will record for the show). Above all though I would not power it up until we get a chance to talk should you get it before then.

alyinsanfran
07-01-10, 06:25
I pity the fool who doesn't appreciate disco.

Sweet table mate. Mildly gay, not that there's anything wrong with that. But definitely change those flippers for something less phallic.

Hope you get it ship shape and Bristol fashion.

miner2049er
07-01-10, 11:46
Is this your Xmas present to yourself?

Not really, I almost bought one of these (http://ipdb.org/machine.cgi?id=1332) last year but it fell through. That would have been my preference, a much more classic Electro Mechanical.


There is nothing that says you MUST keep those flippers.

Absolutely, but the table was built, designed and tested with them so would putting normal flippers on it not ruin the table's physics?


I pity the fool who doesn't appreciate disco.

Oh I love disco. The era, the sounds, the awful clothes. My first choice fancy dress is 70s disco. It's just not my first choice or era when picking a pinball table.


Sweet table mate. Mildly gay

Hmmmm, now how does a table become gay?


Hope you get it ship shape and Bristol fashion.

That is one's intention darling, though I'll settle for running first.

njs
07-01-10, 11:59
Can you be more specific on doesn't work? If it's not coming up at all that suggests a whole different set of problems than if it does boot.

First thing you want to check is the boards in the head. There should be three. The upper left board is the MPU. If it has three AA batteries in it you should check them to make sure they aren't dead and leaking battery acid (it's actually alkali, as you use acid to neutralize it) all over the MPU and the solenoid driver/lamp driver board. That is the board on the lower left that is connected to the MPU via this giant connector (NOT what I would call some of the better engineering out there). The board on the right is the power converter board. My standard check out for a machine I've never turned on before is to pull all of the connectors from this board and test all of the voltages with my multimeter on first power up. If you don't have a multimeter that could make this step a bit tricky.

If you have any questions please feel free to ask.


Nick

miner2049er
08-01-10, 12:30
Can you be more specific on doesn't work?

Hey Nick, thanks for chiming in, I don't have a Multimeter but as soon as the snow clears I will go out and buy one.

At the moment I can't be more specific as I don't have the table here yet but the owner suspects something simple, but as it is in his dental surgery he just wants it out of his way and has not diagnosed it.

alyinsanfran
08-01-10, 01:43
Hmmmm, now how does a table become gay?

With flippers like that I'm not surprised most folk change 'em out..

And hey, I'm in San Francisco! :B

SubaruBrat
08-01-10, 02:59
We will be doing a troubleshooting recording as well as a first time pin owner segment. We will talk about all the ins and outs of pin ownership and the basics of setting up your first machine and important upgrades and maintenance. Then we will fix the thing and let the listener hear how his experience might go.

alyinsanfran
08-01-10, 06:35
Good news! I'm really enjoying the pinball stuff. If I had the room, I'd have one. I have what may be the finest view in North America, unfortunately with 650sq/ft. I buy anything bigger than a breadbox, I have to find something to get rid of.

What the hell's going on with Zizzle anyhoo - I thought they had a new mini in development?

SubaruBrat
08-01-10, 06:46
If I did a segment called "If I knew then what I know now" It would include a few things.

#1, Start building small things now. That means a set of ribs for a $80,000 plane costs about $700, takes 6 months to build and can be built on a 1xx5ft work table. If I knew that I would be years ahead on planes. I would have been building ribs around the globe and while doing homework.

#2 If two chairs can fit in a space then one can have a pin there. When I was in school after I did my time in the Army I thought I didn't have enough room, I had a small apartment as a student. Had I had my mind clear, I would have not had a coffee table but a pinball. And had I had a broad who wanted a coffee table more than a pin I would have had to think down the road if I would have kept her longer than the pin......

miner2049er
15-01-10, 10:06
So the table showed up today along with a ton of spare boards and rubbers etc. I will have a sort out tomrrow and see what I have but the biggest spare is a complete playfield for a Bally Eight Ball Champ.

miner2049er
17-01-10, 12:58
Got my camera out today and took a ton of pics as I opened up the table, then tried out my new multimeter while testing all the fuses.

Scott, I uploaded pics and questions to your FTP.

teknohed
23-01-10, 12:53
If this thing doesn't play "Disco Inferno" during multiball then there is no justice in the world.

miner2049er
23-01-10, 01:09
Burn Baby Burn ......................

miner2049er
24-02-10, 11:40
Decided to practise desoldering chips earlier and came to the conclusion that my iron is not up to it.

It is hot enough to melt my own new solder but takes a while to melt the old solder on my spare board, and when doing it through the desoldering braid it takes longer still, way too long to have a hot iron on a board.

Guess I should pick up a higher quality iron.

SubaruBrat
25-02-10, 03:21
Which brings up the topic of wattage, too many people go much higher than they should on wattage. For any IC, 25 watts is enough for soldering, 35 for desoldering with solder braid and a 40 watt dedicated desoldering iron is the limit. You don't want to start lifting pads.

OldTymeToys
25-02-10, 05:14
I just finished listening to this segment today. I don't own a pin but plan to down the road, so like UK- I'm a bit intimidated by them. Great work Scott- you make it very easy to picture what you are talking about.

miner2049er
25-02-10, 08:01
Which brings up the topic of wattage, too many people go much higher than they should on wattage. For any IC, 25 watts is enough for soldering, 35 for desoldering with solder braid and a 40 watt dedicated desoldering iron is the limit. You don't want to start lifting pads.

The pinrepair guides mantion temperature as well as wattage, I was thinking more about temperature tbh.

my iron at least needs a new tip so instead of that I will get a new iron but I may shop around a little first.

SubaruBrat
25-02-10, 09:38
I like wellers myself, the trick to making tips last and better soldering is to keep a wet sponge there and wipe the tip every few joints.

miner2049er
25-02-10, 10:16
I like wellers myself, the trick to making tips last and better soldering is to keep a wet sponge there and wipe the tip every few joints.

Yeah my stand has a wet sponge in it, the only problem is I don't smoke joints.

Duke.Togo
26-02-10, 12:54
Yeah my stand has a wet sponge in it, the only problem is I don't smoke joints.

Well there's you're problem!

miner2049er
27-02-10, 06:08
I bought a new one today, they had a 20w which I already have, a 30w which I bought and one that was 30w but had a button you could hold down and it would rise to 130w.

I tried the new 30 and it is still struggling to desolder through the braid on most of the joints though it melts my new solder immediately. The 40w just does it perfectly.

Some of the joints on my spare boards take an age to melt with the 30. Was solder made of lead in 1978?

njs
01-03-10, 05:06
Yes, solder from 1978 probably contains lead. At one point there was a big push to remove lead from solder but, I forget exactly when that occurred. As far as soldering goes, I would second Scott's recommendation for Weller irons, as well as, keeping a damp cloth around to clean the tip with.

The single biggest trick to soldering (taught to me by my first supervisor at work) is to not overheat it. You basically want to get the gun to as cool a temperature as possible that will still melt the solder. As far as melting solder on stuff goes, you want to put the solder tip under whatever you are working on (heat rises). Patience is also a valuable tool as you will have to wait on some of the larger pieces to get hot enough to work the solder joint.

As far as the older stuff goes, follow Scott's advice from the tech questions and add some new solder to help meld the old stuff. Also, you do have a solder sucker, right?


Nick

miner2049er
01-03-10, 08:28
Yes, solder from 1978 probably contains lead.

WOW I was joking, but oh well, shows how naturally intelligent I am I guess.


Also, you do have a solder sucker, right?

No I'm using braid which works really well with the 40w iron.

SubaruBrat
01-03-10, 08:57
Funny thing, solder is traditionally a ratio of tin to lead, say 60/40. ROHS was implemented to reduce hazardous materials in products and lead was on the list. As long as you don't eat your solder I am not so sure this was such an issue. But they created the rule and now newer products are ROHS compliant or generally restricted from import, new solder purchased will be ROHS compliant in many places.

And by solder sucker Mike, he means that desoldering iron with the bulb I was telling you about, or alternatively the separate bulb used with a regular iron. I prefer the integral type, but irons and tips are like brushes to a painter so you have to find what works for you but bulb/integral/braid are all common.

njs
03-03-10, 04:16
ROHS was implemented to reduce hazardous materials in products and lead was on the list. As long as you don't eat your solder I am not so sure this was such an issue.

For workers who were soldering 40 hours a week back in the day there was a problem with inhaling lead from the melting solder fumes. For the average hobbyist, this should not be a concern though. Part of my professional training is in chemistry and, as I'm fond of telling my colleagues, dosage is everything. If you consume enough of anything it will kill you (including water). Ultimately, buying a new roll of solder won't hurt if you're really concerned about it.


Nick

miner2049er
05-03-10, 02:23
I am now in possession of my spare parts order from Marco, and for the lolz I tested resistance on the new flipper coils and they registered over 23.

I thought I must have had the meter on the wrong setting so I checked a couple of coils in the machine and they read as I expected, pop bumbers around 3.5 / 4 and the dying flipper 0.3 then I tested the new one again on the same setting and it was 23.

Not 2.3 or 0.23 but 23. I thought I should see something around 7 or will it read different when it's in the machine?

OldTymeToys
06-03-10, 02:11
For workers who were soldering 40 hours a week back in the day there was a problem with inhaling lead from the melting solder fumes. For the average hobbyist, this should not be a concern though. Part of my professional training is in chemistry and, as I'm fond of telling my colleagues, dosage is everything. If you consume enough of anything it will kill you (including water). Ultimately, buying a new roll of solder won't hurt if you're really concerned about it.


Nick

Lead boils at over 3000F- soldering tips should be kept below 750F, so it is unlikely that gaseous lead is present in the fumes. The fumes are actually from the flux boiling, and other chemicals are probably present but not lead.

miner2049er
06-03-10, 06:52
OK, had a day in the garage today fixing the machine and I now have a fully functional and stable Power Supply and board that outputs all the correct voltages on the right pins consistently.

On to the CPU board then and I have discovered 2 things:

(1) I actually have a System6 CPU board in my System 3 game.
(2) My 5101 chip may actually be good but my D17 diode is definitely bad which could be causing my boot up problems.

I changed the 5101 anyway and am about to replace the diode if I have a suitable spare.

SubaruBrat
06-03-10, 08:11
Your blocking diode was bad? Surprising given that your batteries weren't having issues, but possible. I replaced mine on Gorgar, used a 4148. That is a very common diode.

miner2049er
06-03-10, 09:39
Yeah, they didn't go flat running the whole board and they didn't leak when it tried to recharge them.

miner2049er
07-03-10, 01:05
Scott, have you done this mod? Adding the 2 fuses.

I was wondering whether to do it or not.

http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/meltdow2.jpg

miner2049er
07-03-10, 01:17
OK, dumb questions arise and announce yourselves.

(1) The dead transistor on my driver board is not original and nor are its 2 neighbours. These were originally TIP120s but I have spare TIP 102s which pinrepair says are recommended upgrades. The 3 replacements on my board are TIP 29s. What are the differences? Why has someone put 29s on mine and should I replace all 3 with 102s?

(2) I took my flipper coils off and these as you know have the 3 contacts on them as do my replacements (and the part numbers match up). The ones on my game have 2 diodes but my replacements have only 1. The new ones have it between the outer 2 contacts but the old ones also have one between the middle contact and an end one.

Who? What? Where? When and Why?

SubaruBrat
07-03-10, 03:44
120s to 102s is standard and just fine. TIP29s would not be a first choice, they are about 4 times more expensive, and not generally used in that application, probably a case of operator had on hand. Me, I would just replace them all with new 102s and be done with it.

Tip 102 8amp 100v
Tip 120 5amp 60v
Tip 29 Has A B C etc. variants, between 40~100v and varying amps


2. Layers of the onion in undoing operator fixes. Double diodes are Bally style, single are Williams. Looks like someone used what they had on hand. The double diode is wrong, single is correct. And it is also possible that the perp wired the strong and hold coils backward as well. We are going to want to wire the flippers carefully and double check all the existing wiring. Might be an explanation to your driver board state. I know I have said it before on the show, I spend more time undoing half assed work than I do fixing the original problem.

miner2049er
07-03-10, 04:15
The burnt out transistor corresponds to J11 pin4 which is wired straight to the ball server coil.

Oh, and one of the flippers with the double diode iw a williams flipper so somebody added it.

miner2049er
10-03-10, 11:16
OK some weird stuff happening now.

I reassembled the machine with all the new parts and it blows the solenoid fuse every time.

I have the drop target coil sticking on so I disconnect it, then the other pop bumper coils stays on, so I disconnect that and the ball server coil sticks on.

Any clues?

SubaruBrat
11-03-10, 01:09
Several ideas, we need to skype up this weekend.

miner2049er
11-03-10, 01:37
Don't think I can this weekend but we are doing tomorrow anyway.

I think there are 2 things going on, I stil have an unstable cpu board and probably a short on the solenoid circuit.

miner2049er
07-04-10, 08:18
Anybody here know about Windows?

I'm wondering which one to throw my driver board through

I'm sick of spending money on parts and fitting them for the thing to still not work.

The guides are telling me transistors are dead but they are not, and they are telling me my ICs are dead but they are not. I think the fact that the thing has been on fire isn't helping.

I have been offered a working driver board for a little more than I want to pay but I am considering either selling the whole friggin thing or buying a working driver board.

retroshaun
07-04-10, 09:18
LOL Welcome to the world of arcade restoration! I was equally frustrated with a Tempest monitor some time back... got there - eventually - and expensively!
Keep up the work Mike - it DOES get easier and less frustrating, honest!

Duke.Togo
07-04-10, 10:00
Sounds very frustrting UK, and maybe just replacing the board will be worth the hair it will save on top of your head. Maybe you could look to trade someone for an EM game?

GameGavel
07-04-10, 11:38
How about getting one that just works next time? :BONK:

miner2049er
07-04-10, 11:59
How about getting one that just works next time? :BONK:

In the UK that is an expensive hobby.

SubaruBrat
08-04-10, 01:42
Mike, worse case you can mail them to me so I can sort them out. Or we could just find a replacement set over here, they are cheaper, and send it to you.

Duke.Togo
08-04-10, 02:14
Someone is selling a Dance Fever here on Craigslist for $300, but his MPU is bad. Not interested in buying it, but are these games just prone to going bad?

miner2049er
11-08-11, 07:03
Time to revive this thread I think.

Pinball 2.0

I now have the boards back from Scott and I'm awaiting his return from Vegas to Skype up before I flip the power button as I have a couple of questions before sending electricity through it again.............

retroshaun
11-08-11, 07:43
Good luck! Can't wait to hear how this one turns out!!!

Leathco
11-08-11, 08:25
Glad to hear those boards made it. Good luck!

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk

SubaruBrat
11-08-11, 10:05
Yeah man, still in Vegas, but sometimes check in the forums, post here if you want to give me some lead time.

miner2049er
11-08-11, 11:40
Well my System 3 CPU board has come back a System 6 CPU board and one of the connectors has a different pin layout that I need to look at. The board has 4 pins but the connector has 3 with one blocked off. I don't see a problem removing the plastic blocking the hole as I don't think the connector has that pin wired anyway.

The other thing I need to do is solder a couple of wires from the battery holder on the board to the one in my backbox.

Will look to fire it up tomorrow night.

vibri2001
12-08-11, 01:44
Wouldn't it be so sad after all this time waiting for customs, if Scott grabbed the wrong board when he shipped them back to you?

SubaruBrat
12-08-11, 02:21
Nope, made sure he had the most solid board set possible given the distance. UK, triple check the PS values and coil resistances!

miner2049er
13-08-11, 10:15
OK we have developments.

After a slight modification to one of the boards Scott sent back and a spark from my multimeter when my kid was testing voltages, I booted it successfully today and played a little pinball.

I have some issues to resolve like the coin mech to convert to new coinage, an issue with sound which is not working and my flippers are weak in spite of the new coils but I am finally close to having a 100% working machine.

All bulbs are working and all playfield parts are working so once the other things are fixed and I can put the glass on for more than 5 minutes I'll get around to stripping and cleaning.

GameGavel
14-08-11, 01:46
Sounds like you are coming along! Pictures !!

miner2049er
14-08-11, 11:46
Sounds like you are coming along! Pictures !!

The W.I.P is here:
http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever

miner2049er
14-08-11, 11:39
Coin Mech converted to new coins and I added a credit button too.

I swapped the curved flippers for lighter standard flippers and the right one is now just about strong enough for use but the left one is still too weak for use so I have some underlying issue there, and the sound board emits a sound randomly when it feels like it.

SubaruBrat
15-08-11, 01:16
I will look into this more on Thurs morning, but a few things to check...

How do the left V right coil values compare?

Follow the harness and look for pinches or tool marks.

Check the connector pins on the harness side for burn marks, the pins on the board are half the story.

It is also possible, that the transistor pair controlling the left flipper is weak but passed tests, those can be replaced easy to eliminate them.

Also check mechanical drag, are the coil sleeves good? are the links binding?

Oh, and the coils have two sides, power and hold, if the end of stroke EOS switch is bad, diode bad, or a wiring error you might be firing the hold and not the power coil.

miner2049er
15-08-11, 09:26
I've tested the physical aspects and cleaned everything and rebuilt so I think we are good there, though the end of stroke on ech flipper is different even though the resting points are the same.

Flipper rebuilding 101 is due I think.

miner2049er
15-08-11, 07:54
I desoldered the flipper coils (both brand new with brand new diodes) and the resistance was 24.

Resoldered them and the left one is still 24 but the right one drops to 2 so is something shorted or is that going to be the transistor pair on the driver board gone bad?

miner2049er
10-09-11, 11:07
As you can see, I fixed the weak left flipper, you'll hear about it in the show s.

Here's a teaser.

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/videos/discofevernosound.htm

miner2049er
21-09-11, 11:02
From this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-056.jpg) to this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-100.jpg)
this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-057.jpg) to this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-101.jpg)
this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-058.jpg) to this (http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/images/discofever/hires/DiscoFever-102.jpg).

zxspectrum16k
11-10-11, 08:56
Any chance of a video to watch it in action, would be interesting to see the photo from before, to than the working pin

miner2049er
11-10-11, 10:18
The photos of the whole project and the video of it running are in our media section.

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/media.htm

zxspectrum16k
12-10-11, 09:33
great work, looking good. I had seen the photos, just didn't notice the video.

mcoster
15-10-11, 09:52
Hello UK,

Could you get the sound to work?

I have a Super Mario Bros Pinball that gave me a lot of trouble in finding why the sound wasn't working (speech and sound effects were OK, but no music).

When you get to that part, let me know. All my suffering in trying to fix my game gave me a bit of knowledge and I learned a lot of troubleshooting...

Regards,
Moises